And so I said to him, let us suppose that these elements of the state are the big departments of state: foreign affairs, the economy, home affairs and so on. And the following things will happen, and we must have a 'system 2'... and I built it up on a piece of paper lying on the table between us. Then a system 3 and a system 4, and I got that far. And then I got to system 5 - and I drew a big, histrionic breath, and I was going to say, 'this Companero Presidente, is you!'

Before I could say it, he suddenly smiled very broadly, and he said, 'Ah! System 5. At last - the people.' That was a pretty powerful thing to happen. It had a very big influence on me. (CiB link)